Permabans

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Micheal
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Re: Permabans

Post by Micheal » Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:39 pm

In another forum, I also have offered myself as a human sacrifice.
"To find out who rules over you, simply find out who you can't criticize."- Voltaire

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Khaos
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Re: Permabans

Post by Khaos » Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:45 pm

This has been a core curriculum in many of the DA dynasties. And now this is an actual argument to keep 1 person out of the FA? Really?
Oh please, there was a large difference in what was taught and what she applied.

You may be feeling spry this morning, but you are being terribly naive in application. As you will recall you felt the need to step into the business of another aspect, its leadership, and policies in regards to this person, and I think, given that is a big step out of character for you shows just how much of a difference it was.

I would also love to know how Snowys "Laws of Power" thread even comes close to the type of shit Mortose pulled.
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Micheal
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Re: Permabans

Post by Micheal » Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:58 pm

Remember... you asked.

To be clear, their is no comparison between what Snowy teaches and what Mortose was able to do.
I made that clear in the previous post. But as you now play dumb... lets explore this more shall we?

So, before we truly speak to how she was able to do it... lets look at what she actually did.

1. Get a forum for her NSOD.
2. Became the only active DA member who could manipulate the forums for a period.
3. Threatened people.
4. Taught very questionable material.

These are the 4 primary things that come to mind... so lets talk to them shall we?

1.
She got her forum not because the IC entertained it... Raven and I... the only 2 active IC members at that time (Because Draconis was never around) refused to give it to her.

In a unique showing of Draconis... he utilized his position and gave it to her, effectively taking it out of the IC's hands.

She did not DO THIS... the DA enabled her to do it.

2.
Draconis in what could be described as a fit because well... YOU were writing letters to the IC... Richard was writing letters to the IC, KISS WAS WRITING LETTERS TO THE IC... all demanding the 2 OF US ACT to preserve the DA from itself... so Draconis kicked everyone out and installed Mortose as his apprentice. And went back to being absent... leaving her defacto leader of the DA.

She could not... once again, do this without an enabling DA.

3.
This is where you have a case... but out of everything she did... this was the one thing she did in fact apologize for and you can readily go look as I posted where she PM'ed me and apologized. And in my true form, I will expand more on this later.

4.
Without policing from the DA, the material she taught was pathetic. I know because as the IC we demanded to be able to monitor it given how much past DA masters were complaining about the situation. Once again though, this was sanctioned by the DA leadership of the time and the LA and SA IC members were having to step in.

You make the comment
Khaos wrote: As you will recall you felt the need to step into the business of another aspect, its leadership, and policies in regards to this person, and I think, given that is a big step out of character for you shows just how much of a difference it was.
You all were expecting the IC to step in. I did not ask for this, I know Raven despised it right along with me, wished you all would unfuck yourselves and get your asses back together. But because of... OMG!!! Who installed Draconis anyways? Draconis keeping the reigns... nothing was going to be done if the IC did not do it. Because none of the DA masters would step back in at that time.

You are in power because Raven and I started a chain reaction which removed Mortose from contention, and started a series of events which looked more like the old military cartoons where the sergeant would ask for a volunteer to step forward and everyone else except one would step back.

Don't point a finger at me. I would have loved nothing more then to not of been a piece of that puzzle.

I have no qualms about how my part in that turned out... but lets play a game shall we? Called what if people refused to step up?

Lets think on this. I see 3 people who stepped up during the Mortose fiasco, Raven, myself, and Luciana.

Raven and I hated the place the DA put us. If we had not acted, Mortose would still be in the DA and dare I say, its leader by now.
However, I cannot overstate the fact that if Luciana had not returned when she did, agree to run against Mortose for leadership... and won it... that Mortose WOULD be lead definitely after that moment and dare I say it, be lead as we speak?
For Raven and I agreed to hold an election for the lordship of the DA... Luciana if she would have returned so much as a day later could not have even ran. Her time as the lead was crucial as that was the time frame when Mortose finally messed up. THIS was when she made her threats. Would she have made them if she ran unopposed and won?
This all had to happen because where all of the former masters wanted action... none of you wanted to step up. If you had, (Please correct me if my memory on this is wrong Raven) Raven and I would have handed it to any one of you... no questions asked.

Reality is, she accomplished things because she had a DA which enabled her to do it.

Good lord man! We had 3 people come here by order of the former DA lead Lord Eidolon shortly thereafter giving them leadership of the DA and they got knocked to the side as readily as batting a fly... you COULD be bothered then. This that I bring forth is barely a footnote in the annals of history here BECAUSE Raven and I didn't give it a second thought. I remember the words WilliamKeade gave when I announced this to the LC... "OH HELL YES!" (Those were kind of my thoughts at the time to... and of note... that was said in the LC... probably the only curse word ever used in the LC as they defined it... and nobody batted an eyelash).

Khaos... I pick my words very carefully because I think your lordship of the DA is excellent. But ignoring the fact that Mortose could not do what she did without the DA to enable her is really short sighted... and lets be honest... my activities opened the door for you to be lead.

Would you have been lead without mine and Ravens intervention? No way in hell. We opened the door (Under duress I might add)so that the DA could get back on track and lead to you returning as lead and I would not have it any other way.

I cringe at the idea of what a DA under Mortose would have been like... but we are not talking about returning Mortose to the DA in any fashion are we?

No one person could ever repeat what she did... to include herself. She could not have done it without the DA backing her.

Will continue updating this particular chain as I post the pertinent chains in support of this:

This link is to my response which led to what I now call the vote... I called it then a show of support:

viewtopic.php?f=38&t=6022

Some of the discussions the IC had back then over the private workroom issue which would lead to the IC refusing Mortose her workroom... the names asking are interesting of note Kiss also = Nehul (For clarification)...

viewtopic.php?f=38&t=6033
viewtopic.php?f=38&t=5369
viewtopic.php?f=38&t=2533

As their was precedence for a lead of the DA getting rid of everyone, it does make sense to post this little gem, I also find it educational given who told Luciana to request as she did of me above due to Draconis removing everyone:
viewtopic.php?f=38&t=2042

These are the ones which are available for everyone to see.

Now, how do I know she can never do this again?

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=8908

Because this is true, moreso now then when you typed it. This ended any possibility of Mortose doing the same thing again. You do more to keep her out then you would need to do if she came back in because you already did everything.
Last edited by Micheal on Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:57 pm, edited 4 times in total.
"To find out who rules over you, simply find out who you can't criticize."- Voltaire

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Pelar
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Re: Permabans

Post by Pelar » Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:42 pm

David wrote:
Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:23 pm
I have asked her to write a piece on her ethics. It will be forthcoming tonight/tomorrow.

Since Sotunus is the only one concerned with the ideological spectrum AND posting it publicly is grounds for banning me, it will be inboxed to Sotunus - and he can distribute it at his discretion and risk.
You're willing to make the FA your playground, threat leaving, and generally play badass Sith lord... but fear you'll be banned for bringing a message?

Vandor isn't on the IC anymore, so there's 0% chance of that happening.
Cut the melodrama.

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David
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Re: Permabans

Post by David » Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:52 pm

Pelar wrote:
Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:42 pm
... but fear you'll be banned for bringing a message?
I am particular on what, if ever, I am banned for.

On some blades, I readily fall. On others, never.
I will return with FA's testicles around August, 2019.

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Ren Tohimaru
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Re: Permabans

Post by Ren Tohimaru » Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:05 pm

Oh for f*cks sake. Here we go again?

K, David's deal is David's deal. He wants to deal with Mortose, that's great, fine, he's a free man. But when I see Vandor offering his head as the price for Mortose's inevitable failure and not David (even to make a point which is what it looks like), there is something seriously wrong with this situation!

Permanent Ban-it's permanent people! That does not brook debate, it does not brook questioning! It's there for a reason, for the protection of all members, Mortose included! She is a self-admitted sociopath who made some serious messes throughout the community. Duh she's charismatic; duh people liked her-hint, that's what sociopaths do! We have been through this, we have said it multiple times in many different threads, why in the freaking hell are we repeating this? Look up the freaking definition of permanent, people.

To the Inner Council and the Council Heads: with the exception of one who provided the relevant information for this bullsh*t at the start and tried to move on, you all are stupid. Oh, "no one did this with Emma"? Go whine in your own god damn coffee cups! I know almost nothing of Emma and can guarantee this regular posting on "please let me bring in my pet sociopath" would NOT have been tolerated by her. Her decisions were final and she was RESPECTED for it! You want this to stop? Make it stop. Stop entertaining "unban Mortose" threads. Maybe then you all can get back to teaching like you claim to.
-Ren Tohimaru

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Killing Time
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Re: Permabans

Post by Killing Time » Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:29 pm

@Ren

It shouldn't really affect you that much bearing in mind you are here infrequently.

Correct me if I'm wrong but was you at one time part of Mortoses cliche? I think it was called NSOD?

I seem to recall you having dealings with her?
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Micheal
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Re: Permabans

Post by Micheal » Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:36 pm

Ren Tohimaru wrote:
Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:05 pm
I know almost nothing of Emma and can guarantee this regular posting on "please let me bring in my pet sociopath" would NOT have been tolerated by her.
I am going to just avoid the rest of your post. The respect I have gained for you since you returned leads me to believe you have strong feelings on this and where I disagree, I respect them... but this one sentence here I have to point out something to you... I only wish I had the PM's I used to have to support the claim I am going to make.

Isto was extremely proud of the fact she was a highly functioning Sociopath... she used to claim kinship with me because as she would state it... she saw a kindred sociopath in me.

The point I make is not that I am a sociopath... more is being a sociopath a bad thing? I know many who wear it like a badge and I know the name would be one that would give you thought over this.

/BOWS
"To find out who rules over you, simply find out who you can't criticize."- Voltaire

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Azrael
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Re: Permabans

Post by Azrael » Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:51 pm

Thinks it would make more sense that if she fucks up, her and everyone that supported her coming back gets permabanned as a result. Then again the ic could actually just enforce the ban as is, and lock the threads debating it and be done with it.
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Khaos
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Re: Permabans

Post by Khaos » Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:53 pm

Isto was extremely proud of the fact she was a highly functioning Sociopath
Key words being Highly functioning
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Micheal
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Re: Permabans

Post by Micheal » Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:09 pm

Khaos wrote:
Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:53 pm
Isto was extremely proud of the fact she was a highly functioning Sociopath
Key words being Highly functioning
All self proclaimed sociopaths think they are highly functioning. Remember these were her words not mine.
Having stated that, I liked her as a person.
"To find out who rules over you, simply find out who you can't criticize."- Voltaire

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Ren Tohimaru
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Re: Permabans

Post by Ren Tohimaru » Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:43 pm

Killing Time wrote:
Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:29 pm
@Ren

It shouldn't really affect you that much bearing in mind you are here infrequently.

Correct me if I'm wrong but was you at one time part of Mortoses cliche? I think it was called NSOD?

I seem to recall you having dealings with her?
Posting infrequently and being here infrequently are two different matters.

And yes, I was once. Bad time in my life, but through that I had the support of Raven and it paid off-I grew into a stronger person.

As for having "dealings", as you say, who better to inform on what David or anyone else who backs Mortose doesn't, but one of her very own former students?
Vandor wrote:
Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:36 pm
Ren Tohimaru wrote:
Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:05 pm
I know almost nothing of Emma and can guarantee this regular posting on "please let me bring in my pet sociopath" would NOT have been tolerated by her.
I am going to just avoid the rest of your post. The respect I have gained for you since you returned leads me to believe you have strong feelings on this and where I disagree, I respect them... but this one sentence here I have to point out something to you... I only wish I had the PM's I used to have to support the claim I am going to make.

Isto was extremely proud of the fact she was a highly functioning Sociopath... she used to claim kinship with me because as she would state it... she saw a kindred sociopath in me.

The point I make is not that I am a sociopath... more is being a sociopath a bad thing? I know many who wear it like a badge and I know the name would be one that would give you thought over this.

/BOWS
Many people have some level of sociopathy-just the way it is; that area of psychology is pretty solidly gray. But there's a difference between a sociopath like Isto who was able to channel her capacities into productivity and used that as her "high", and someone like Mortose who channeled into destructive behavior. Problem with a sociopaths mind is once you start a channel like that, you don't really stop it. Mortose believed strongly in pure and undiluted nihilism.

On another note, and the last I'll say on this subject/thread: The series of bans that have been mentioned were used with Mortose-it's not like we just flipped and threw her out for nothing; the series of bans as consequences are there for that reason. This was done to teach a lesson on actions and consequences. Now, whether these continuing threads are motivated by David, or Mortose, or both, clearly the lesson has not been taught. Every six months this comes up. If the lesson on being permanently removed from a website has not been learned, then the lesson should continue. If it has been learned, then Mortose will have found a niche in the world, and there will never be a need for her to be brought back to this site again.
-Ren Tohimaru

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"But I, being poor, have only my dreams; tread softly, because you tread on my dreams."

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David
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Re: Permabans

Post by David » Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:00 pm

Ren Tohimaru wrote:
Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:43 pm
If the lesson on being permanently removed from a website has not been learned, then the lesson should continue. If it has been learned, then Mortose will have found a niche in the world, and there will never be a need for her to be brought back to this site again.
Whatever logic suites your agenda, right?
I will return with FA's testicles around August, 2019.

Micheal
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Re: Permabans

Post by Micheal » Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:08 pm

Apologies, it is not my intent to appear to beat a dead horse, but now that the policy is settled, it needs to be linked within the policy/procedure chain like the others so as to not be lost.
"To find out who rules over you, simply find out who you can't criticize."- Voltaire

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